In Chapter 8 of 12 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, product designer and software engineer Chris Hinkle shares how programming is both engineering and art. In programming, engineers are thinkers and technicians are the doers. Hinkle notes the class system between both. From an artistic perspective, Hinkle details how programming or engineering is an expressive medium that takes people's thoughts, desires, and wills and manifests them in a piece of software. Hinkle currently designs products and develops software for The Barbarian Group digital marketing services company. Previously, he worked at HUGE and R/GA digital advertising agencies. He has also founded a product incubation laboratory, The Hinkle Way.