In Chapter 10 of 12 in his 2011 Capture Your Flag interview with host Erik Michielsen, product designer and software engineer Chris Hinkle shares what he has learned about encouraging and helping large corporations to be more creative and less risk-averse. He notes the challenge, based on British anthropologist Robin Dunbar's number. Dunbar found once a mean group size reached 148 (commonly rounded to 150), it becomes more difficult to maintain stable social relationships. Hinkle sees the challenge encouraging corporate creativity Hinkle currently designs products and develops software for The Barbarian Group digital marketing services company. Previously, he worked at HUGE and R/GA digital advertising agencies. He has also founded a product incubation laboratory, The Hinkle Way.