Arts & Entertainment

What Factors Determine Your Work Ethic - Lulu Chen

In Chapter 5 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "Where Did You Learn Your Work Ethic?"  Chen considers nature versus nurture when thinking about the origins of her work ethic.  She finds influences do come from outside forces such as parents or work experience but also feels much of work ethic is inherent and part of who you are. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: Where did you learn your work ethic?

Lulu Chen: I don’t think you learn it. I think it’s just who you are. I think it could be developed, you know, the whole nurture versus nature argument. I think my parents always worked really hard. And so they were good examples of working really hard and I learned probably some of the work ethic from them but also I just—it’s never really a question—you just always do the best that you can. But I don’t know if that was learned or just who I am.

Erik Michielsen: And do you have people ask you about that? 

Lulu Chen: I don’t think people really talk about it. I mean I think you get hired again as a freelancer, if they know that you care and that you work hard. And that you’re invested in their project as much as they are, or, you know, I think that it becomes expected when somebody knows who you are, and you—if you’re having a slacking off day, you know, they’ll notice it, but it’s ultimately not because you’re trying to be lazy or something, you know. 

Lulu Chen on How to Help a Friend Find a New Job

In Chapter 6 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Has Your Network Helped You Find You Jobs?"  Chen notes it is especially about the little things where your friends can help you find new jobs.  This includes having your friends vouch for you as well as having them give you help updating your resume or writing a cover letter. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How has your network helped you find new jobs?

Lulu Chen: It’s all encompassing, you know, your friends can send you job postings or ideas, or tell you about things that they’ve heard of and opportunities which is I think huge, you know, and I think that a professional network or just a personal network does that, especially in such a big market in New York. But, I mean it’s the little things, really, you know, it’s like helping you proofread your cover letter, and making sure that your résumé looks good, and we all do it for each other. And from the technical small things to the fact that they will go and vouch for you, and really say to a friend or a colleague, or their boss, like, “Oh, you know, I’ve worked with this person before. I really think that they’re the best candidate for the job, and it might not be somebody who is obvious, but, you know, if you give this person that chance, she won’t let you down.”

How to Ask for the Job You Want

In Chapter 7 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Did You Get Hired as an Art Director Without Being a Traditional or Obvious Candidate?"  During an interview, Chen is asked "What do you really want to do?" and after answering not with stylist but rather with art director and creative director, she is given an opportunity to interview with a creative director.  Chen gets the art director job.  This experience teaches Chen to ask for the job she wants. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How did you get hired as an art director without being a traditional or obvious candidate?

Lulu Chen: Well, I did some art directing when I worked at Self Magazine, and, you know, you had to work on the styling and art directing, so that was really great experience for me, but recently, transitioning into more of an art directing role than a stylist role. This is a really funny story. I actually went in to an interview thinking of applying for a fulltime styling position, but it turned out that the company was so big, and that specific job was actually with an acquaintance friend of mine that we had worked together years ago, at Condé Nast for. But, you know, sitting in his office, he basically—we were both like, “This isn’t for you.” Like, “It’s a writing job. You can do it. You can do these pages. If you really want it, you know, I’ll think about it. But what do you really want to do?”

And in the last couple of years, I’ve been thinking about like, “Oh, you know, someday I’d really love to be a creative director. I’d love to do something a bit more bigger picture.” You know, just kind of growth and transitioning, and—I don’t know—setting up new challenges for myself, so, he kept pressing me, like, “What do you really wanna do?” Like, “What do you wanna do? What do you wanna do?” And I was like, “Oh, my God. I just want, you know, I wanna be an art director and a creative director one day.” And it just came out. And—but I had never said it out loud. I—you know, I kind of questioned some friends who were art directors and, you know, tried to kind of get their advice on, “Oh, what do you think?” or “How do I do it?” But I never really just put it out there, you know?

And sitting here in an interview, and I’m like, “I can’t believe I just said that.” But it is, it’s true. It’s really what I was hoping for. And, you know, his response was, “Fine. Okay.” And you’re like, “That’s it?” “Really, it’s that simple?” I mean, you know, I never thought—“Oh, you just keep asking. You just keep asking.” Or, you ask—You ask, you know, and sometimes, you know, someone will be like, “Fine. Try. Go for it”, you know, maybe— So I was really lucky, he—and I really appreciate that he gave me the opportunity, and he put me in touch with his creative director. And love this man, so, so—I don’ know—just inspirational. I think I had a 12-minute interview with the creative director. And he spoke, like 3 languages in that time. Picked up a phone call in French, said hi to me in Chinese, told me about all of operations, looked at my portfolio, showed me, like, some video that he had done, like, in 12 minutes. I mean, it was like the fastest talker I’ve ever met in my entire life, that type of thing. And you’re just like, “Whoa.” You know, and he said, “Okay.” He’s like, “We’re gonna give you this chance.”  

You know, maybe he didn’t say that literally, but he gave me the chance and I remember this so clearly, he said, “Do good and good things will happen, and, yeah.” And he’s like, “Just don’t F it up.” And he kind of put the fear of God in me, but at that moment, I was like, “Well, there’s no going back now, so, you know, that’s not an option. So you’re just gonna go for it”, you know. You know, so I did.


Art Director Lulu Chen on Learning to Work in Retail E-Commerce

In Chapter 8 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "What Does It Mean to Be an Art Director Working in Retail E-Commerce?"  In her online retail projects, Chen works to keep the photography simple yet useful to share the look, feel an shape of the clothes virtually with the consumer.  She shares examples how the lighting, photography and presentation can change based on the mood or presentation goals. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What does it mean to be an art director working in retail e-commerce?

Lulu Chen: So, for the projects that I’ve worked on, we try and keep things simple so that it’s easy to view and we really try and do the clothes justice. You know, we try and present the shape, the silhouette. We try and show the texture, you know, we try and show the style, but—you know, there’s a lot of things that we’re trying to get across. But, really, it’s a selling shot. So we’re trying to show how many buttons it might have, you know, if it’s a boxier fit or a slim fit, or, you know, where it would—you know, the proportions of certain things, pockets—I mean all these details, really, it’s trying to get all of that across, so that it’s a fair representation for the consumer, because you’re not there, you’re not able to tangibly touch things, but, you know, so we try and show them.

So brand to brand, it’s different. And also there are some more editorial elements to certain retail e-commerce sites. Some have simpler backgrounds and they’re against gray or white. And it really just—the focus is on the clothing or the accessories. But sometimes, you know, with the more editorialized shots, it’s really about the mood.

Lulu Chen on How Online Retail and Editorial Fashion Jobs Compare

In Chapter 9 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Does Working in Retail E-Commerce Compare and Contrast With the Work That You Have Done in Editorial?"  Chen notes how the teams - photographers, models, stylists, etc. can be the same as can the process.  However, the goals can be very different, as editorial goals can trend more toward aspirational brand communication whereas online retail or retail e-commerce is more functional, rooted in selling clothes that fit. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How does working in retail e-commerce compare and contrast with the work that you’ve done in editorial?

Lulu Chen: Well, the teams are the same—can be actually almost the same, you know, the talents, people do both, you know, your photographer, your hair and makeup, your models, and everybody who’s freelance. Actually, you know, even some contributors of magazines, they do both, so the process is similar in a way, depending on what you’re working on. But the actual—the goal might vary. So in editorial work, you’re more focused on this narrative and this aspirational kind of fantasy and this mood and this lifestyle you might be selling or, you know, trying to achieve.

Whereas I think in retail and in commerce, it has to be more brand specific or, you know, it has to be more pointed, you know, it’s—you’re selling. You’re selling a specific thing. You’re selling either a brand or an item or items, and specifically for me, I work on apparel, so the clothes have to look good, you know. I mean in editorial, we can move around or lay someone down, and sometimes it’s a hot mess, you know, and it doesn’t matter that things are flying around and, you know, but I think that in commerce, it has to be a little bit more functional, you know?

I think you can have fun in both editorial and in retail. 

I think it’s starting to be bridged too, you know, it’s like that whole art and commerce, and I think a lot of retail brands are doing a really good job, they’re still trying to make—they’re trying actually to be aspirational and trying to get their customer to push the boundaries or, you know, to kind of imagine this lifestyle—you know, wearing their clothes or their items or their accessories, but at the end of the day, you know, it’s still—it still has to be more functioning.

How Art Director Lulu Chen Helps Brands Tell a Story to Customers

In Chapter 10 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "As an Art Director, How Do You Help Brands Tell Their Story?"  Chen notes how brands are in effect personalities and working on brands comes down to understanding the customer, the customer lifestyle, and putting a consistent, on-brand message in place to connect with them. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: As an art director, how do you help brands tell their story?

Lulu Chen: Well, it’s really important to stay consistent, and on brand. Which basically means that you’re always answering that same question, like, “Who is the customer?” “How does this fit into the customer’s life? Her needs, her—his needs, you know, their lifestyle, their budget, even, you know. And all of the things that the target audience represents.
Once you understand the brand, and once you understand what the goals are, I don’t think it’s hard to stay on brand. It’s like understanding a personality. 

Erik Michielsen: And that’s just something that you try to figure out through conversations as a team?

Lulu Chen: So much of it is something that you grew up with. You know, there are so many brands that you already know without thinking about it, or without having to break down what that brand is, you already know it, right? I mean, think about it, you know. I think it was in an interview and they said, “Do you know this brand?” And I said, “Yes, of course, I grew up with it.” You know, we used to go to the mall and we used to shop there. Yes, you know? Yeah, so even if you don’t think about it, you know, I think you’ve been exposed to brand identities your whole life. 

How to Use Concepts and Storyboards When Planning a Photo Shoot

In Chapter 11 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Do Concepting and Storyboarding Help You Direct a Shoot?"  Chen finds putting town ideas on paper facilitates more effective collaboration.  Writing down concepts and storyboards provide examples that help others understand your thinking.  This creates more effective collaboration that results in presenting photo shoot ideas to the creative director for approval.  She notes how limiting creative brainstorming can result in a game of telephone. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How do concepting and storyboarding help you direct a shoot?

Lulu Chen: You know, what we do is so visual. And it’s very hard to convey, just something that’s in your head, you have to put down on paper. And whether it be something that you mock up that’s just purely a vision that you have or an idea or, you know, you pull inspiration or swipe and I think it’s easier to collaborate and have talking points, and to show what you’re trying to convey. It’s very hard to be like, “Oh, I want the light to look like this.” You know, you start talking and it’s also what you’re expressing verbally may be totally different in somebody else’s head, or if their perception of, you know, it’s like telephone, except that, you know, you’re there in person and then it could just become a hot mess. Yeah, I think that it’s really important to have specific examples, so that everyone can understand exactly what you’re thinking.

Erik Michielsen: And is that more of an individual task or is it a collective task?

Lulu Chen: So, it can be both. You can work on it by yourself. But ultimately, in my past experiences, you’ve had to present it and there’s checks and balances. So you talk to your creative director about it or other people on the team, just to make sure that everybody’s in sync and on the same page.

Erik Michielsen: And is there a sign off process?

Lulu Chen: Sometimes. Yes. You know, it depends on how elaborate the shoot is.

Erik Michielsen: And how does that work?

Lulu Chen: Well, you present your ideas, and they say, yes or no. Or, you know, they might say that we like this aspect, maybe we should explore this direction a bit more or, you know, this chair looks a little funny, like maybe we should get some more options or I think that’s just, you know… off top with my head but, yeah, it’s definitely a collaboration.

Lulu Chen on Learning Art Director Skills for Fashion Photo Shoots

In Chapter 12 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "What Has Taking Direction as a Stylist Taught You About Giving Direction as an Art Director?"  Working on-set as a fashion stylist, Chen gets to work with a variety of talented art directors and creative directors.  She learns how approach and prepare for jobs as well as how to motivate teams and stay organized in deadline-driven environments. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What has taking direction as a stylist taught you about giving direction as an art director?

Lulu Chen: Well, I was lucky enough to work with a lot of different art directors. And if I had been an art director coming up the ranks, just as an art director, I think I would’ve been limited to how many different approaches and different people that I could’ve worked with, so I was very lucky and I worked with a lot of really talented art directors and creative directors. And what I learned from them is some really great ways on prepping jobs, how their approach was, how they communicate, and then not to sound negative but also what not to do. So, you know, all the things to do and strive for, and then some of the things that maybe, you know, I should try not to do.

So my take away from that is that organization is really helpful. And sometimes it’s hard because you’re wearing the creative hat, but you really have to get things done in a timely manner, you know, there’s always deadlines. And there’s a lot of money at stake, you know, photo shoots are expensive, you have to get certain things done in a day or two days, and it’s a lot of pressure, to see how other people handle that, to see how people communicate well—actually, how they also motivated and inspired their teams, was really nice to see. So I did learn a lot as a stylist. I was able to observe.

Erik Michielsen: And so now you’re on the other side of the fence.

Lulu Chen: Oh, definitely. I definitely try and keep all those things in mind, you know, all the things that worked for me, or that I really appreciated, and I try and do that as well. But it’s funny because a lot of people tell me that I’m so nice, and—which you’d think is a compliment but sometimes I am like, “Did they not think it’s genuine?” Because I like someone speaking to me in a certain way so I’m going to try and speak to everyone else in that tone, you know. But that doesn’t mean that I’m not gonna be able to get my job done, you know. But I think it’s always nicer to talk to people in a nice way, right? Yeah, it’s like I don’t have—I don’t wanna go there unless I really have to.

Lulu Chen on How Fashion Stylist Work Leads to Art Director Job

In Chapter 13 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How is Your Graphic Design Education Relevant in What You Do as an Art Director?"  Chen talks about how a traditional art director job candidate has design and layout experience.  Chen talks about her unconventional path of working on sets as a stylist and how she came into her art director role. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How is your graphic design education relevant in what you do as an art director?

Lulu Chen: The traditional candidate for an art director is somebody who came up the ranks more focused on design and layout. And, you know, I came up the ranks being on set, you know, and logging in those hours, and I did have that advantage of being an art director at the magazine because you play, you know, you play dual roles, and I also had the background, so I was able to kind of bridge that.

Just the experience and all the different shoots that you’ve been on, you know, there has—you know, there’s been good days and there’s been bad days, there’s been all different kinds of talents, there’s been all different kinds of projects, there’s been all different kinds of art directors, you know, having seen that, and learned from it, you know, that was my bridge. But it took somebody really giving me the opportunity to show that I could do it, because I wasn’t a conventional candidate. And I will always be appreciative of those people who believed enough in me to give me that chance. 

Lulu Chen on Directing Models and Crew on a Fashion Photo Shoot

In Chapter 14 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "What Do You Do to Bring Out the Best in the Fashion Models and Crew You Direct on Set?"   As a photo art director, Chen tries to let the models and crew do their jobs and verbalize encouragement and feedback during the shoot.  She bridges the constructive criticism by being sure to communicate what she is trying to accomplish and to try to be helpful in the direction she gives. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What do you do to bring out the best in the fashion models and crew you direct on set?

Lulu Chen: Well, I really try to let them do their own thing. I try and let them do their jobs, and I really—I try to encourage them. And so if things are going—if there’s a certain—if there’s a certain shot or a certain position or a certain thing that’s working, I definitely verbalize that and just, you know, I just keep giving encouragement, like, “Oh, that looks great.” And, you know, sometimes I’ll point out little things but, you know, ultimately I trust in the people that are working with me.

Erik Michielsen: How do you kind of bridge that, you know, constructive criticism and make sure that you’re providing the input you need to as a director without overstepping your grounds?

Lulu Chen: Well, I also—I’d like to add that I think it’s really important depending on what kind of project you’re working on to really let the team and the model know what it is that you’re doing, you know? Like to know the layout or if it’s a full page or what you’re trying to establish. Because they can’t do it unless they know. It’s like help me help you type of thing, so I definitely try and give them information without over saturating them with it.

And also, I’ll try and point out little things that they probably know but they’re not cognizant of, like some people have quirks, you know, so an example is, one of my models sometimes they do this with their hands, and the problem is, you know, if I don’t have enough frames without it, then I have this in a shot. And I know it’s not—I mean I couldn’t do it, you know, I probably have these strange quirks of my own, so I just try and watch out for it, I try not to point out anything too negative, you know, but I also try to be more constructive, so if there’s a couple of frames, I’ll just—that I really need like a safe shot or something really, really simple and straightforward, I’ll just say, “Oh, you know, can you just keep your hands like really straight,” or something. Just to cover it, you know, but I try not to make them feel self-conscious ‘cause I would never want to, and it’s something that you don’t even realize, I think, that you’re doing.

And also it’s a collaboration so sometimes people point out certain things to me and, you know, it’s also my job to point out, like, “Oh, you know, maybe that should change,” or, maybe we should fix something that they might not have seen right away.

Lulu Chen on How to Work With Someone Who May Feel Misunderstood

In Chapter 15 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Are You Learning to Work More Effectively With Different Personality Types?'  Chen loves the entertainment and fun that come with working with different personality types.  She finds being understanding and patient with people that may act differently than she does opens the doors to positive working experiences.  She finds it important to give people a chance and get to know them. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How are you learning to work more effectively with different personality types?

Lulu Chen: I love working with different personality types, because it can be quite entertaining. It’s more fun, you know, you never have a boring day. I don’t know—you just go with it. I think I have a very high tolerance and I also think that a lot of times, a lot of people are misunderstood, and they might come across a certain way but, you know, you just have to give them a little bit of time and try and be understanding. I have a good friend who’s very talented and, you know, people just say, “Oh, he’s crazy,” you know. But he’s not really crazy, he just care so much and he’s so passionate so that sometimes, you know, his mood and his approach to things might come across misunderstood but he really is coming from a good place, and has the best heart.

So I think sometimes, you know, that doesn’t always come out the first time you meet somebody or work with somebody. You have to really give people a chance I think. 

Lulu Chen on What to Do When Life Does Not Work Out as Planned

In Chapter 16 of 16 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, art director Lulu Chen answers "How Have You Learned to Adapt When Things Have Not Worked Out as Planned?"  Chen notes why expectations are important, specifically how you set and re-set expectations as you live your life.  While planning is important, she notes it is not about keeping pace with family and friends' milestones and achievements.  Rather, it is about adapting to how your life goes. 

Lulu Chen is a photo art director working in retail e-commerce in New York City.  Previously, Chen worked as a freelance stylist for leading fashion catalogs and magazines.  She earned a BFA in design and art history from the University of Michigan.

Transcript:

Erik Michielsen: How have you learned to adapt when things haven’t worked out as planned?

Lulu Chen: Well, I think a lot of it has to do with expectations, you know, you adapt to maybe giving yourself a little bit more time, you know. Or a little more lead way with certain things. I wasn’t necessarily a planner but, you know, at some point, there are certain checkpoints in your life, certain big birthdays, you know, or watching your friends or your peers achieve certain things, or—you know, or have—start families or things, that you start to think about, you know, “Oh, oh, was I supposed to be there at a certain time, or was I supposed to earn this much at a certain point, or,” you know, just like all of these expectations, and you might disappoint—you might be disappointed but then you make new goals, and you make new expectations, and you adapt, you know?

You adapt to how your life goes, not how your life should’ve been, or what you think it should’ve been. So you roll with it. No, seriously, you roll with it. I mean, like, you know, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? If like, shit hits the fan, you gotta just—you know, you just brush yourself off and you pick up and you keep going.

Hattie Elliot on What You Learn Producing a Reality TV Show Pilot

In Chapter 2 of 19 in her 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, female entrepreneur Hattie Grace Elliot answers "What Happened With Your TV Show Pilot and What Were the Takeaways from the Experience?"  Elliot talks about what she learned producing a docusoap reality television series called "The Grace List" based on her life and her business.  The experience gives her a firsthand view of how television is made and how a show concept and characters can change after a network buys the show. 

Hattie Grace Elliot is the founder and CEO of The Grace List, a social networking company that creates destination events and experiences to forge lasting personal and professional connections across its young professional members. Elliot graduated from the University of Cape Town in South Africa, where she studied economics, philosophy, and politics.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What happened with your TV show pilot and what were the takeaways from the experience?

Hattie Elliot:  Wowsers, that was an incredible whirlwind. So last year, I was producing a pilot for a TV show on my business called The Grace List. And it was really kind of a pseudo—they called it a docu-soap, it profiled my personal life and my search for love along with, you know, “the daters,” you know, members of The Grace List. And it was a great concept. It was an incredible, incredibly unbelievable, unbelievably frustrating, chaotic, ridiculous experience, but at the same time, really extraordinary, and like I wouldn’t change it for anything in the world, but I just now understand why Lindsay Lohan and all these celebrities are so dysfunctional, ‘cause I feel like I’ve got a very good head on my shoulders and I’ve worked very hard for years, but even I was like, wow, to keep—be level-headed in this industry, it’s tough. 

It was a huge undertaking. I was very, very proud of the initial pilot, which the network bought, they then decided to re-tweak it and reshoot it, and change the premise quite a bit, and cast the characters, and I was really devastated, to be honest, about the final product, I was absolutely—I really worked so hard and was very actively involved, but the final edit, I was just didn’t feel—I didn’t wanna put my name on. I wouldn’t. It was very upsetting especially after putting all that time in. Do I have regrets about doing it? Never. It’s like I would rather have loved and lost, you know, I would have rather had that whirlwind experience, I learned so much. I don’t regret it. 

But would I do a show again? I might with caution, but now I understand why reality shows are never around real businesses, you know? Because when you have a real company, it’s your baby, like I take great, great pride in this company that I built, and what I do, and I’m very protective of my friends and family, and so I’ve never just been willing to sell out, you know, for 5 minutes of fame, and, you know, crouch shot on the cover of Us Weekly or something, like, it’s just not my thing. 

So at this point, the project, the second round went actually to an offsite which is basically like where all the network execs meet and see if it’s gonna go to season, made it through the offsite, went to focus group testing, and I think about halfway through focus group testing was dropped, and it was a real blessing, actually. And there’s definitely some other show concepts in the works, but they’re very different. And they are concepts that I really believe in and that I feel like I can really do justice to now that I realize what goes into a show and what—what’s negotiable and what’s not negotiable, and what the actual process is, time-wise, commitment-wise and, you know, what you have authority to have edits on and stuff, so I’m excited. It really has—it was a—it really led to a lot of opportunity for me, a lot of opportunities, so—Yeah, it was a trip. Albeit an entertaining one.

Ken Rona on How Aspirations Change as Responsibilities Grow

In Chapter 11 of 15 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, digital media executive Ken Rona answers "How Are Your Aspirations Changing as Your Responsibilities Grow?"  Professionally, Rona points to how he has established trust with his colleagues and bosses to make decisions and solve problems.  This leads Rona to think about ways he could handle larger senior management responsibilities.  However, personally, Rona sees his aspiration as staying in Atlanta and making sure his wife and children are stabled and grounded. 

Ken Rona is a Vice President at Turner Broadcasting, where he leads teams across advertising sales, big data software development and business strategy.  Rona earned a BA and MA in Political Science from Stony Brook University and a PhD in Behavioral Economics from Duke University. 

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How are your aspirations changing as your responsibilities grow?

Ken Rona: One of the things that I think I’ve shown is that I can be trusted. I can be trusted with staff. I can be trusted with decisions. I can be trusted with problems. As I’ve kind of proven that trust, I start to say, “well, you know what? Maybe I could be the CEO or COO of a company. Maybe not something the size of Turner, but certainly in the analytic space, I’m probably—“ So I kind of see that vision and I think that’s not something that I saw 3, 4, 5 years ago. But I think that I—I think that I could be a pretty effective, you know, senior C level person at a company that does what I do. That’s not to say a media company. I wouldn’t -- I’m wholly unqualified for that. But you know—or to be like the head of global analytics for something. Like I think that’s—I think that’s where I’m headed and I didn’t see—I didn’t really see that vision 5 years ago certainly. But now I think professionally I do. 

I think the question is, is that gonna be good for my wife and the family? I think that those kinds of jobs might be—Like I would be very interested in it but I’m certainly not interested in it enough to put my family at risk, you know? Or you know, and the family the—or should I say, I’m not interested enough to put the family dynamic at risk. It was quite difficult to get everyone to Atlanta and to a happy place; hopefully we’re there. The thought of trading—to uprooting people for any job right now I can’t really get my head around. So actually part of the aspirations, you know, when you talk about aspirations, I took it as professional aspiration, but I can tell you I have a personal aspiration to stay in Atlanta. 

I really—I do not think—and that my aspirations have really changed. I mean I—before I thought about moving I’d be perfectly happy myself to be move every 5 years. I think with the family, and the relative, the relative success that I’m enjoying I don’t--really don’t wanna move. I really want everyone to be stable and for my, you know, for my wife to be grounded in Atlanta

Ken Rona: What It Means to Be a Leader Working in Management

In Chapter 12 of 15 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, digital media executive Ken Rona answers "What Does It Mean to Be a Leader in What You Do?"  As a leader of a team, Rona sees his role as less about thought leadership and more about helping his team solve problems, develop their own staff, and identify where and where not to decide what projects to pursue. 

Ken Rona is a Vice President at Turner Broadcasting, where he leads teams across advertising sales, big data software development and business strategy.  Rona earned a BA and MA in Political Science from Stony Brook University and a PhD in Behavioral Economics from Duke University.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What does it mean to be a leader in what you do?

Ken Rona: There are leaders in multiple elements of my job, right? There’s the leader of the teams. It’s my job to help them figure out what to work on. But my job isn’t really to be a thought leader in advanced statistics or operations research; it’s not my gig. My gig is more to help them solve prioritization problems, to solve conflict, to help them better develop their staff, to identify areas of the business where they might have impact—places that they can take ownership. I’ve also encouraged them on places where we’ve identified areas where we could take ownership; there are things where I have said we are not going to. 

So part of kind of leadership in the job, the product side of what we do is a good understanding of what to say no to. There’s this thing called multivariate testing that lets you, let’s say swap out different headlines and see which headlines are more attractive, that’s how you get these crazy headlines from Huffington Post, you know? See who’s vacationing at the Riviera. They didn’t write that, what they did was they wrote four different headlines and then saw which one led to most traffic, and that’s the one you’re seeing. So there was an opportunity to be more of an advocate at Turner for it and I said to the person who wanted to do this, like, you know, I don’t think that that is—I think we are fully engaged in the things we’re working on. And this is something that I agree would be good for Turner but what are we gonna give up? 

So I think part of what—part of what you have to do as a leader, you know, within my job is to say, what are we not going to do. So one of the things I really help the team do, I think is keep focus. 

And the other thing I do is I hold them accountable. So that’s another piece, right, where people have made commitments, and I try like any good manager, not leader but say—I try to say what day is something due. And if the thing isn’t due that day, “what’s up?” I ask, “What’s up?” And there’s always a reason, right, there’s always a reason. My direct reports don’t get to have excuses. They have to deliver. And what I tell them is if you don’t deliver, I mean the way I perceive that is, you know, either you are not—you know, you didn’t do a good job forecasting which I think you get like some passes on but at some point you should know that like some things always take longer than you think and you should be able to make that mental adjustment. But so, either you’ve done a bad job at forecasting, you need to get better at that, or you’re a liar. And that I think--but that’s my point about learning, I try to make it a little shocking so that they can—that they grab onto it. 

So I think part of that is you know the holding people accountable, and I say like you asked before about what happens in a big company, it’s a little harder to hold people strictly accountable in a big company, because you have to operate in a particular HR environment. But I think that’s an area where—and truthfully it’s an area where I would probably be more aggressive if I were in a smaller company. I’d have more freedom on it. I’d probably hold people even more accountable.

Ken Rona on How to Be a More Effective Corporate Manager

In Chapter 14 of 15 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, digital media executive Ken Rona answers "How Are You Learning to Thrive in a Corporate Organizational Structure?"  Rona shares knowledge he has gained from management work experience in large corporate cultures.  He notes how being patient has been fundamental to improving managerial effectiveness and helping him achieve goals. 

Ken Rona is a Vice President at Turner Broadcasting, where he leads teams across advertising sales, big data software development and business strategy.  Rona earned a BA and MA in Political Science from Stony Brook University and a PhD in Behavioral Economics from Duke University.

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: How are you learning to thrive inside a corporate organizational structure?

Ken Rona: If I could give someone one piece of advice around that they were gonna go to a large company, a large kind of corporate, kind of very traditional--traditionally structured company, I would say the critical thing is patience. 

So I use this phrase “the market will clear.” Remember what I said about learning? I have like these little kind of small phrases that I like to use, that’s one of them. “The market will clear.” And by that I mean at some point the right thing will happen. And—because I think people when they’re in companies—when they are reliant on other people to do stuff. You know, you say, “Why are they not doing this? Like it is so obvious. They just need to do this thing and the world will be so much better.” 

One of two things happens, if you’re patient, either one, if—and you’re right. That person does it. So you know you were getting yourself nutty for no reason, that it was gonna happen. Or they don’t do it, you are right, they don’t do it, it becomes obvious that you are right, that person gets kind of either, you know, removed in some fashion or another—someone else comes in and they do it. So by that I mean the market, that’s what I mean when the market clears. If you wait the market, you know, the market will get to its equilibrium. The right thing will happen. 

Sometimes that waiting time can be very long. I’ve certainly seen—I have seen in the case of one of the companies I worked for, it was weird. It was wacky. And me and some of the people I worked with were just like we can’t believe this company is a success. And like they’ve gotta have a contraction, they’ve got—it’s just badly run. And I—you know, and I believed that, and I left. A year later I’m like—They’re still doing fine. I’m like, “How could that be? How could they still be doing well?” Another 6 months goes by, the stock falls 60%, the market cleared. So in my experience, if you are patient and you are trying to do the right thing—if you do the right thing and be patient, if you can. There are certainly times where you need urgency. But in general, my counsel is patience. Just be cool.

Mark Graham on Getting Promoted to Managing Editor

In Chapter 7 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, digital media executive Mark Graham "What Has It Meant for You to Get Promoted to Managing Editor at VH1?"  Graham talks about his recent promotion from senior editor and how his new role at the network ties into executing the network's digital strategy.  His VH1 role revolves around three pillars: 1) support VH1 television shows with online content; 2) bring pop culture levity to celebrity culture; 3) build out the VH1 music community. 

Mark Graham is currently a managing editor at VH1, an MTV Networks company. Previously Graham worked in editing and writing roles at New York Magazine and Gawker Media.  He graduated from the University of Michigan with a B.A. in English.  

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What has it meant for you to get promoted to managing editor at VH1?

Mark Graham: It’s been a real challenge because I’m not narrowly focused on one specific area of entertainment coverage, I’m sort of spread out over 3 and helping our writers and teams of people who manage each of those sites really sort of laser in on coverage, things that people are talking about, ways to present content that are fun and interesting and sharable to people. I’ve held the managing editor title in different capacities before. I was a managing editor at a website called defamer.com where multiple writers reported in to me and I helped sort of set the editorial tone and framework. 

The cool thing about my new role as managing editor at VH1 is that it’s not just one particular channel that we’re covering—and by channel, I mean the channel of coverage not a channel on your television set. We have 3 primary what we call verticals that we’re—that I’m in charge of managing, one being our shows, so all of our content that appears on linear which is television, all of our shows, we support those digitally, whether that be, you know, recapping episodes, pulling out great information that happens in those episodes through animated gifs or things of that nature, video compilations, really sort of delving into that and helping make our readers feel like they’re actively engaged and building a community of people who are interested in our shows and talking about them on a deeper level other than just sort of passively watching them on TV. That’s one area that’s really exciting for me. 

Another one that we deal in is the celebrity-sphere, which is a very crowded marketplace. And what we’re trying to do with celebrities is really sort of leverage VH1’s strengths in terms of list making and bringing a real sort of fun sense of popular culture to celebrity coverage which sometimes sort of a stale feel, there’s lots of people who are covering celebrities they don’t always necessarily do it in a very interesting way. So we’re trying to bring some levity and fun into the celebrity-sphere. 

And the 3rd sort of area that I’m responsible for is music coverage. VH1 has a rich history in music, be that through original shows like VH1 Storytellers or Unplugged, or helping to launch new emerging artists through a franchise we have called You Oughta Know. You know, really helping to sort of build out our relationship with people particularly in the social space and getting to—getting them to interact with VH1 as a place that they know and they trust and brings them good recommendations and as for people who don’t necessarily have a lot of time in their lives to discover new music, we wanna help be a place to, you know, really bring that sort of communal experience back to music that is not happening as much because of the way people consume music these days through their iPods. There—you know, Top 40 radio is shrinking in terms of its relevance importance, we wanna be a voice that helps people discover new music. That’s been a real—it’s been a great challenge and a lot of fun, something that’s wholly different than my other experiences in the past. 

Mark Graham on Finding Meaningful Work in Digital Media

In Chapter 8 of 17 in his 2012 Capture Your Flag interview, digital media executive Mark Graham answers "What Makes Your Work Meaningful?"  Graham notes he works in entertainment and how his goal is to make things fun for his audience.  The challenge is to help his team filter through a crowded pop culture landscape to deliver relevant, enjoyable information they cannot find elsewhere. 

Mark Graham is currently a managing editor at VH1, an MTV Networks company. Previously Graham worked in editing and writing roles at New York Magazine and Gawker Media.  He graduated from the University of Michigan with a B.A. in English.  

Transcript: 

Erik Michielsen: What makes your work meaningful?

Mark Graham: Great question. I take a lot of pride in the work that I do, in the work that my team puts out, you know, I’m covering light and fluffy topics, you know, I’m not a journalist who’s traveling to Afghanistan and doing hard journalism. We’re doing things that are fun and that are diversions to people during their workday who maybe are a little bit bored and need something fun to sort of give them a little jolt of energy at the job, so in terms of meaningfulness, what I look to do with the content that I create personally and that our team produces, is to make sure things are really fun for people. 

I like it when we create pieces of content that my friends talk about, that, you know, strangers on the internet comment on, that people you don’t know share and discover and pass on to new people, that’s always been a real thrill and sort of the reason why I’m in the area that I’m in right now. That’s always been a passion of mine, you know, helping people sort of filter through a really crowded pop culture landscape, and sort of help people who have limited time, sort of figure out where they should spend their time or not spend their time. Those are the things that—They’re light and fluffy—I don’t know if I would attach a word like meaningful to it, I’m just more in a place where I like things to be fun and it’s okay to be a little bit frivolous, but also delivering information that people want and that people can’t get in other places.